Curse

Perfected Shadow · Oct 06, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

To answer the questions
1. As I said, I don't even know if 9 expertise + zealous daggers can support the bar. Let alone sin crit. strikes. Test it for me?
2. Bows are just too slow for me, and SoH is melee only. A lot of bow attack skills are also 10 energy.

Here's another thing that could work:

Less damage but you got SY. Can't find any worthwhile axe attacks in place of Executioner's.

Ccat · Oct 06, 2009, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Nice, a DB chain with Enraged Lunge looks like pure win. Not like I'm going to try it, I don't have a Ranger. But I would like to see the build get some recognition, if it's any good that is.

Tenebrae · Oct 06, 2009, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

To answer the questions
1. As I said, I don't even know if 9 expertise + zealous daggers can support the bar. Let alone sin crit. strikes. Test it for me?
2. Bows are just too slow for me, and SoH is melee only. A lot of bow attack skills are also 10 energy.

Less damage but you got SY. Can't find any worthwhile axe attacks in place of Executioner's.

They are good as that , dont worry about lacking SY , it matters 0. You got the base BM build with 3 slots you can use to a sec class. Its almost same for hammer builds and paragon builds. Switch to ferocious if you use Blazing Spear and take GDW instead of Run as One and you got one of the most used BM builds out there

.

Aldric · Oct 06, 2009, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Lol, good catch. Fixed it now. Stupid mindless copy-pasting ftw!

I'm too lazy to calculate it out at the moment, but I wonder if GftE might add more DPS than BS given the damage bonus on the pet.

GftE i have run a few times in guild games and it also works quite well.

I use BS at the moment because of it has very good synergy with my level of Spear of Fury (BS is fully charged in 1 hit of SoF) so that as soon as BS is charged up I have a nice attack cycle of BS-SoF-BS in ~2.5 secs which combined with the KD/DW and damage from Enraged is fairly potent.

Find their Weakness is quite fun aswell for a huge initial spike with a SoF-BS chain. I use that on occasion where i dont run Enraged Lunge/Scavengers.

I know many people rate rangers as shit but seriously if you can get ranged single target dps around the 100 mark with added functionality of DW or KD does it really matter that a warrior can do a bit more?

Laraja · Oct 06, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I've played several classes through several of the campaigns and by far it's been the easiest with my ranger in PvE, yes, even easier than my Necro. Monster AI is retarded and knowing the spells, the order they cast them and the casting time, I can keep them shut down and my group steams rolls through mobs with ease.

Then when PvE bored the hell out of me, I went to PvP. Wow, so much fun I can't even begin to express what a blast it is being a total pain in the ass ranger. Tab through the enemy ranks, spread poison, spread bleeding, interrupt and spread some more poison and bleeding and keep that monk low on energy from healing. Learn monk spell animations and get ready to interrupt him/her.

I think maybe one has to have the right personality for rangers. Some people aren't happy when they're not seeing big yellow numbers. For me, I get a rush when a caster is casting some big nasty spell and their bar goes purple and they hear that ugly 'click' that means you've been bitchslapped with a ranger interrupt. THAT makes me laugh and what makes a ranger fun.

Shadowspawn X · Oct 06, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

There is a lot of people posting in this thread that don't know squat about rangers thats for sure. No class in this game is better to h/h with than a ranger.
My first character was a ranger, and he has done everything this game has to offer and he has done it with style. Since the beginning of the game his versatility ensured I would never get bored with him. Different bow types for different tasks, builds that go from trapper, thumper, condition spreader, interrupter, pew-pew, torrent and beastmaster. Take away the pve only skills that allowed everyone to be a pro runner and rangers were the best runners in the game. Making a ranger was the best thing I ever did in GW, nothing but good times. He doesn't get out much anymore, only because of lack of content. He got his GWAMM long ago and is still first into battle whenever I do log on and do a zq here and there.

Oct 07, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Im getting more back in tune with my ranger, and remembering why i picked it. I definitly dont think they are useless anymore. I agree they are capable farmers, (trapping, naturally good armor vs ele + earth skills, splinter maybe, etc) Plus they are flippin fun! I like that i can be a derv, sin, para, warr, ranger--whatever. I think people who think they suck dont know how to play them. If you learn how to move and place ur ranger taking advantage of RANGE, you can be very helpful. Sure your sin can do more dmg per second, but mine can do it outside the aggro circle without getting touched, let alone dying...

We all know pvp is a blast, and if you say BHA sucks then you dont know the value of caster shut down. Even in pve, i target the monk first of every mob and wipe him out quick, clean up and move on. Rangers are strong. Subtle strength maybe, but strong.

P.S. Try this build out
Nightmare Weapon
Tripple Shot
Splinter Weapon
Volley
Scavengers Focus
Hunters Shot
Distracting Shot
Serpents Quickness

Steal 42 health x3 in a burst for single enemy wipe out, or splinter mobs to death. Great energy and health. Ranger danger!

maxxfury · Oct 07, 2009, 06:02 AM // 06:02

>Is a ranger a viable damage dealer? yes. with splinter barage, melee weapons, beast mastery.

>is a ranger a viable damage preventer? yes, spamming saveyourself via barrage/volley/dual/tripple +fgj ect.

>Is a ranger a viable disruptor? god yes! bha is king/queen of shutting down heavy casters! like elem bosses ect.

again...viable =/= optimal! Ofc a ranger CAN be a main damage dealer, ofc it can be a main damage preventer...but it will never be the first choice or the best choice! becuase the other classes simply DO IT BETTER!

The optimal role for a ranger in a team is disruption WHEN/IF its needed, other wise the other jobs are simple done better by another class!

This ofc only matters if you actually want the best (most optimal) team for any given job! IF you dont care, just want to have fun, have no clue about GW or are puggin with random people with a "take who ever" midnset... then sure, rangers can blow stuff up ect. just not as well as another toon would have.

Tenebrae · Oct 07, 2009, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

again...viable =/= optimal! Ofc a ranger CAN be a main damage dealer, ofc it can be a main damage preventer...but it will never be the first choice or the best choice! becuase the other classes simply DO IT BETTER!

The optimal role for a ranger in a team is disruption WHEN/IF its needed, other wise the other jobs are simple done better by another class!

You just pwnd yourself with bolded parts , just for you , ill state another fact :
- Optimal depends on situation always , therefore NOTHING is always optimal for any kind of situation but ranger is ALWAYS viable and thats more that many classes can say

.

Aldric · Oct 07, 2009, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

>Is a ranger a viable damage dealer? yes. with splinter barage, melee weapons, beast mastery.

>is a ranger a viable damage preventer? yes, spamming saveyourself via barrage/volley/dual/tripple +fgj ect.

>Is a ranger a viable disruptor? god yes! bha is king/queen of shutting down heavy casters! like elem bosses ect.

again...viable =/= optimal! Ofc a ranger CAN be a main damage dealer, ofc it can be a main damage preventer...but it will never be the first choice or the best choice! becuase the other classes simply DO IT BETTER!

Funnily enough that is not being contested. Other classes do damage better , on average.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

This ofc only matters if you actually want the best (most optimal) team for any given job! IF you dont care, just want to have fun, have no clue about GW or are puggin with random people with a "take who ever" midnset... then sure, rangers can blow stuff up ect. just not as well as another toon would have.

TBH I hate the "Optimal Build" argument that gets repeated ad infinitum on this forum. Ask 50 people what the optimal build is for any area and mission and you will get 50 different answers. Most of them shit

Also using a sub optimal build is not a black and white situation. There is a huge difference between playing a build which you enjoy but does a few % less damage than the "optimal build" and running something which is just shit but you like.

My guild could prolly shave a minute or 2 off the odd mission or vanquish if we ran 3 FL warriors using "optimal builds" but 2 Wars and a BM is a shitload more fun to play. Is it sub optimal - probably but not but much.

maxxfury · Oct 07, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

You just pwnd yourself with bolded parts , just for you , ill state another fact :
- Optimal depends on situation always , therefore NOTHING is always optimal for any kind of situation but ranger is ALWAYS viable and thats more that many classes can say

.

The optimal role for a ranger is disruption. if that role isnt needed, then i wouldnt take a ranger**.cos the other jobs the ranger could do would be better done by someone else. Simple as.

So the optimal job for a ranger is disruption..anything else is NOT optimal.

Everything else is simply done better by other classes.

**unless im messing around. which these days i usually do! as it so happens

personally i run some shit with [prep shot][experts focus][sundering][penetrating][IaTS][asuran scan] due to been lazy! and that bha is boring as hell to run! im under NO illusions that the bar is far from the best at the job! and its been sub par and underporforming at a job someone else could do a far better!
hence its viable but NOT optimal.

and self pwnd? nah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tys Angel

What do rangers do that other classes cant??

Heavy caster daze and disruption, is done better on R than anyone else

Chthon · Oct 07, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

>Is a ranger a viable damage dealer? yes. with splinter barage, melee weapons, beast mastery.

>is a ranger a viable damage preventer? yes, spamming saveyourself via barrage/volley/dual/tripple +fgj ect.

>Is a ranger a viable disruptor? god yes! bha is king/queen of shutting down heavy casters! like elem bosses ect.

again...viable =/= optimal! Ofc a ranger CAN be a main damage dealer, ofc it can be a main damage preventer...but it will never be the first choice or the best choice! becuase the other classes simply DO IT BETTER!

The optimal role for a ranger in a team is disruption WHEN/IF its needed, other wise the other jobs are simple done better by another class!

This ofc only matters if you actually want the best (most optimal) team for any given job! IF you dont care, just want to have fun, have no clue about GW or are puggin with random people with a "take who ever" midnset... then sure, rangers can blow stuff up ect. just not as well as another toon would have.

That's pretty much the size of it. Correct and concisely put.

Tenebrae · Oct 07, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

So the optimal job for a ranger is disruption..anything else is NOT optimal.

Everything else is simply done better by other classes.

**unless im messing around. which these days i usually do! as it so happens

LoL did you read what you just quoted ?. You cant say something/someone is OPTIMAL , thats a meaningless cliché on GW. Fyi no one said Rangers are OPTIMAL at all tasks ( thats the keyword you didnt use ), what me ( and most prim rangers ) are saying is that they are FAR ( and yes , that "far" is well used ) from being Useless and i think you agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

personally i run some shit with [prep shot][experts focus][sundering][penetrating][IaTS][asuran scan] due to been lazy! and that bha is boring as hell to run! im under NO illusions that the bar is far from the best at the job! and its been sub par and underporforming at a job someone else could do a far better! hence its viable but NOT optimal

You know , when you blend and distort a truth to that point , it becomes a lie. As i told you , optimal depends on situation so no one is optimal or always optimal at X task. By adding "far" you are just making a true statement a non-true one. We all agree that DPS rangers are not the best at that task and warriors or assassins do better but NOT far better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

and self pwnd? nah.

Yeh , you used optimal in a way that you contradicted yourself , read again my quote for that "optimal" use issue , but dont worry , we all mess around sometimes, cheers

.

own age myname · Oct 07, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I'm so glad I made my ranger. My favorite class by far. There is such a variety of builds, and they are actually fun (unlike my warrior SY! spam, yuck). By far my favorite character, and is the only one I've spent 100k+ on.

Don't even get me started on a PvP ranger. I remember being that player who wanted to be those badass rangers who interrupted everything, and now I am one and it feels great. Imo, rangers are the most OP class in PvP if played right.

Ccat · Oct 07, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

We all agree that DPS rangers are not the best at that task and warriors or assassins do better but NOT far better.

I'm sorry but getting 26 AL-ignoring damage per hit whilst attacking faster, with lots of Deep Wound options seems alot better. Can someone explain to me how Warriors and Assassins aren't FAR better?

maxxfury · Oct 07, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Yeh , you used optimal in a way that you contradicted yourself , read again my quote for that "optimal" use issue , but dont worry , we all mess around sometimes, cheers

.

hmm okay

replace the "optimal" with "class that does the certain job best"

and nope, i dont put rangers in the useless tier at all

but alas i cant put them in the top tier for anything but heavy disruption

Ideally i wouldnt take a ranger as a DD or a sy spammer for example, but this IS pve

and we ALL knows pve is pretty cake! Outside of SC's (meaning missions/vanqs blah blah) most stuff gets by, and rangers do a passable job of it! (it been dd or sy spam ect), but arent the "class that does that certain job best!" hence, they arent the optimal choice for that role.

which is whats been said all the way through.

maybe some slight terminology clashes, but thats pretty much the run down of it.

i like guru, i like posts, the discussions, very nice

*must be said in best borat voice! and yes

its on tv right now. *looks around to see if anyone noticed

*edit, wow! how many emotes in one post

gotta be a record for me

stupid msn habits!

Vazze · Oct 08, 2009, 04:45 PM // 16:45

My main was ranger too. It depends on what you like to do. Sins can farm 100-200k/h, a monk will make 50-100k/h, rangers ....about 10k/h (correct me if I am wrong, not an expert here). That qualifies for complete fail.

However, if you are doing titles (missions/vanq) you can run anything. I am fairly certain the best so called "non-optimal" ranger dd builds have more dps than what 95% of the melee classes currently playing GW can do. So don't be shy to experiment.

Perhaps it was mentioned before: the ebon dust ranger is the best (let us call it: MOST optimal ...

) blindbot for pve and a real PUG saver.

Chthon · Oct 08, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

Perhaps it was mentioned before: the ebon dust ranger is the best (let us call it: MOST optimal ...

) blindbot for pve and a real PUG saver.

Actually, it was overtaken by EC Me/E's when EC got buffed.

YMLAD-->Ash Blast-->EC
Or
GoI-->Steam-->EC
are both more effective at blinding large numbers of foes quickly and keeping them blind permanently.

Aldric · Oct 08, 2009, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Actually, it was overtaken by EC Me/E's when EC got buffed.

YMLAD-->Ash Blast-->EC
Or
GoI-->Steam-->EC
are both more effective at blinding large numbers of foes quickly and keeping them blind permanently.

I would disagree with that personally. EC is in my view a bit more haphazard especially if you have fairly wide spread melee/ranged monsters. Rangers with EDA/Volley have a much more controlled method of applying the blind to the right target at the right time.

I've tried playing or partied with E/x blinders and R/D blinders and I found the Ranger much better at keeping control of every physical in the area especially when things go tits up

I haven't tried the Mes build and ive never seen a mes run anything close in pve (getting a mes into a party in pve is an achievment in itself , never mind running a blinder build) so i cant really comment much.

It's a matter of opinion and as i said before , ask 50 people which is the better build and you get 50 different answers. For myself I think that EDA is one of the very few things that Rangers do that cannot be done better by another class.

Perfected Shadow · Oct 09, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

I am fairly certain the best so called "non-optimal" ranger dd builds have more dps than what 95% of the melee players currently playing GW can do.

Fixed. I wouldn't be surprised when you start counting the number of pain inverter/EBVAS/defy pain warriors.

I do question the use of blindbots though. I've rarely used one, since I find that a single skill (enfeebling blood) is more than enough for any mob physicals.